Butler: Where and when were you born?

Phelps: I was born July 6, 1913 at my home in Willington, CT.

RB: Tell me a little bit about your childhood.

EP: Um, I grew up in the same town where I was born. And I had a very happy childhood. There were several kids my age and we had a good time. And then I went to Glass Factory School for the first seven grades. Then to Hall Memorial for the eighth. Went to Windham High School, and then I went to Teacher's College. And uh, thats it.

RB: Okay, did you have any siblings?

EP: Yes I had one sister who died when she was thirteen.

RB: Why did she die?

EP: She had Rheumatic fever.

RB: Thats terrible.

EP: Mmm hmm, she was the only one.

RB: Tell me a little bit about your parents. What did they do?

EP: My parents...my father was a grain and grocery man. He was Danish. And my mother was a former school teacher. Shetaught school when she was eighteen years old in a country school with forty-five children and uh... that's about, my father...she was...my mother was um...English and French.

RB: Were they immigrants, or...?

EP: No, oh, no, their parents were born here.

RB: So tell me a little bit about some of your childhood interests. What did you do?

EP: Uh... well one thing I did was I was a great one for putting on plays. We had a big barn in the back of our house and I was always getting the kids together to put on plays. One afternoon we had this big play and the doctor who lived a couple houses from us and was very cordial was late, so we had a big rocking chair up in the barn for him to sit in. He was late, but when he came we started all over again. [laughter]

RB: That was nice of you. Okay, did you know anyone that participated in World War One?

EP: Uh... just by hearsay. Uh... I can't recall, I can't recall who it was, but just by hearsay.

RB: What did you talk about during World War I? You were a child at that time?

EP: Probably yes, just a child. I really don't know.

RB: You didn't talk a lot about it at home

EP: No.

RB: Okay. Let's talk about what you were doing before the war.  You said you were in a teacher's college?

EP: I went down here, at Willimantic. And um... then I taught school for ten years. And I was also librarian in the town for ten years and I've held several memberships to several boards and I'm active in my church. I'd volunteer a lot. I used to volunteer to go to (unclear) Manor, on Wednesday to play the piano so that they could sing. And then I volunteered at the school. And that's about it.

RB: What grades did you teach?

EP: I taught the upper grades. Upper grades. I taught...my first teaching job was at the Tolland County Home over in Vernon.  And then I went to Sharon, CT. Then I came back to Willington and finished here.

RB: Did you teach any specific subjects, or...?

EP: Oh, no everything.

RB: Everything?

EP: Yes.

RB: And did you enjoy it?

EP: Oh, yes, yes I liked it very much I had a...always had a nice grade, nice class of kids, they were fine.

RB: Okay, um... when did you meet your husband?

EP: I met my husband on a blind date. And he was a staunch Catholic and I was a Protestant and my first meeting was at the Young People's Society in my church. But it lasted all of sixty years.

RB: That's wonderful. And when did you get married...how long was your courtship?

EP: Oh, seven or eight years on and off. We got married in 1939.

RB: Okay. Let's see, where were you living when you got married?

EP: I was living at home. When we first were married we lived with my mother for three months and then we rented a house on Willington Hill. And went up there and lived.

RB: Okay, and uh... did you have any children?

EP: Yes we had three girls two years apart. '42, '44 and '46.

RB: Let's talk about events before the war. How aware were you of events going on in Europe and Asia before the war broke out?

EP: Well the only way we were aware, mostly, was by the media, by printing, by the paper, because--and radio. But not so much by TV. Because we didn't have one at that time, but we did later, of course. But it was...and then talk among neighbors. You'd hear them talking about so-and-so going to war and what had happened. But that's all I was conscious of.

RB: Okay. Was there a lot of talk in the community?

EP: No, just regular talk as it would be about anything going on.

RB: How did you learn that America would be in the war?

EP: Again just through the paper, reading it in the paper. And radio, listening to it on the radio.

RB: When did you hear about Pearl Harbor and what was you reaction?

EP: That was in uh, well that was, I guess probably the day it happened and we heard about it then. And of course we were heartbroken and to hear such a tragedy. But I don't know if anyone from here was involved in it, though.

RB: There must have been a lot of talk at that point.

EP: Oh yes, yes everybody was devastated by that.

RB: Did you know anyone who went to war? Who went overseas?

EP: Uh the only one that, I didn't know him, but our VFW was named after a Toberman, and he was the first one from Willington who was, oh what do you call, killed in World War II. I mean World War I. World War I.

RB: He was in World War I?

EP: Yeah.

RB: Okay and did you know anyone in World War II?

EP: Oh yes. In World War II I knew more because I was older and one was a (unclear) and then there Bridges the two brothers. Those are the two, or the ones that I remember. But Bridger, because they were two brothers that were killed, and then,Walkamocker.

RB: Okay, did you correspond with them at all?

EP: No, just heard them because they lived here in Willington. We were friendly with their parents. My mother was friendly, no I, my mother was, yes.

RB: Okay, um...how did the parents feel when they left for the war?

EP: Oh, they, they of course were heartbroken, but they realized that it was the thing to do and so they made the best of it. And of course when they got word that they were killed, naturally they were heartbroken. And we were, all the town.

RB: What happened in the town? Was there a big funeral for them?

EP: Um, no, not a big one, but at Memorial Day they're honored every Memorial Day.

RB: That's nice. How did you feel about Roosevelt as a president?

EP: Um, I always liked him and I uh, always listened to his fireside chats of course. But we, our family was always, we always liked him.

RB: What kinds of things did he talk about during the fireside chats?

EP: World news, and national news, and what was going on. And it was very down to earth, his talks were, something that you could understand very readily. We enjoyed those.

RB: And did you kind of sit around watching, or listening as a family?

EP: Yes, sitting around. And everybody would gather in the same room and listen to his fireside chats.

RB: Um...what about um...Japanese for example. How did you feel about the Japanese?

EP: I always felt that the Japanese that were interned, I guess you call it, from California, from the states, I always thought that was a horrible thing to do because they were Americans, really. And I was always-- I was always ashamed of our nation for putting them, considering them and putting them away, um, what do you call it?

RB: In concentration camps.

EP: Yeah, in concentration camps. I felt very bad about that.

RB: Did you hear much about that at the time?

EP: Not at the time. Mostly when it was over. You read all these things and I've read novels, of course, about that.

RB: Okay, um...were there any Japanese in this town?

EP: No, I can't recall any, no.

RB: Okay. Um... what about overseas. How did you feel about our Enemies, as in Hitler?

EP: Well, of course, we hated Hitler like everybody else. Naturally.  And I guess I hated him along with the others.

RB: Did you hear about the Holocaust during the war?

EP: Yes, yes during the war, but mostly afterwards. I think everybody has heard so much about it. Even now, you hear about it.

RB: Did you know any Jewish people in the community?

EP: We only had one family of Jewish people and they were just a family with children on Willington Hill here in town. And that was, that was the only ones.

RB: Did you talk to them ever about the Holocaust?

EP: No. Cause by the time we got to talking about those things, they had died or moved away.

RB: How did you feel about, um--when Roosevelt died, Truman took over, how did you feel about him as a president?

EP: I just felt fine. I didn't know anything about him and I, I just felt that it was the thing to do.

RB: What about um, the Atomic Bomb? How did you hear about the Atomic Bomb?

EP: Um, well it was a mixed feeling. I knew, felt that it should be done, and yet I was sorry that it had to be done. That was my feeling. I felt sorry for the people who were involved in it and crippled and maimed or killed. But I knew that it was something that had to be done and naturally I supported my nation in doing it.

RB: Did most of the people that you were in contact with agree with dropping the Atomic Bomb?

EP: Yes, yes most everybody. You always get one or two who are deadly against it, that no, no they never must do it, but the majority agreed.

RB: Now, we tend to hear a lot of talk about morality, whether we should have or shouldn't have, but it seems, most of the people I've talked to have said at the time...

EP: As much as we hated it, we knew it should be done, yes.

RB: Did you know anyone in the community who didn't support the war?

EP: Mmmm...no I don't know a sole.

RB: Let's talk a little bit about the community. Did the war bring new jobs into the community?

EP: Um, no, not too much here because our community was concerned with thread and pearl buttons. Those were our two big industries in town. And I don't know as it increased it or decreased it but they kept on for several years.
RB: Did you know anyone...Uh we hear about Rosie the Riveter. Did you know any Rosies?

EP: Uh, no I can't...I don't know as I do.

RB: Okay, let's talk about rationing. How did rationing affect your life?

EP: Well uh, we were in the store business and so we were, it affected us because you had to have a coupon for everything, but particularly sugar. That was the important thing. And sometimes you'd have somebody come in and they didn't have enough to get a pound of sugar and you'd feel very, very sorry for them and half the time my husband would usually slip them a little, enough to get along for a few days. But it did affect everybody, having that. And tires, gas I mean. In order to go to work they had to have gas and that was rationed, too. I know that I was one of the interviewers for people who were applying for gas coupons. And that was quite interesting. They'd come and tell us where they were going and where they worked and how many miles it was, and then we'd give them the coupons according to what we thought they should have.

RB: Were there any guidelines that you had to follow?

EP: Oh yes. I particularly remember one man who lived probably three miles from his work, and when he came in for the interview, he-I asked him how far he worked, how many miles he drove daily. And it was probably, three miles one way, probably six miles round trip. And he very nonchalantly said about forty-five. And of course I gulped because I knew him and I knew it wasn't, but we were told not to contradict them. If we thought it was wrong than it would go to another group of interviewers and we did that, but I never, I never told on him. I let it go. [laughter]

RB: Okay, did you have a victory garden?

EP: No

RB: Did you know anyone in the community that did?

EP: Not off hand but I imagine they did.

RB: What about scrap drives, did you participate in the scrap drives?

EP: Yes, well my husband at the time was a, did things with the railroad, he was a station agent and there was an appeal for tires. And everyone was supposed to give two tires and there was a station, and a freight station. And the tires kept coming in and in and in and in. The freight station was filled, the station itself was filled, the freight station was filled and then they were outside. And uh, my husband had to keep track of all of them because they were paid for the two. And so we'd have to make duplicate copies and put one in the tire and give one to the person. But the response was wonderful. Everybody seemed to bring in their tires. At the same time there was an appeal for aluminum pans, pots and pans. And that was...there was a bin up at the Town Hall and that was overflowing. And people used to, uh, bring in the...it was supposed to be things that you had on hand, but once in a while you'd find somebody who was so patriotic they'd go out and buy a set and bring them in. [laughter] So that was always funny.

RB: Did you think most people thought that they were really contributing to the war?

EP: I think so, I think so. They just had that feeling that they were doing something good. I imagine some wondered if it really ever got there, but that didn't matter.

RB: Did you experience anything like blackouts?

EP: Uh, yes every little street, every village had a, um oh what do you call um? My husband was one. Whenever there was a blackout you had to go through the village and see that everybody's curtains were pulled, shades were pulled and that the lights were put out as much as could be. There was a title, there was a name for that. Wardens. I guess they were, wardens. And I know that there was one family in town, not that they disagreed with the war but they said that they weren't going to shut their lights off. Nothing doing. So my husband usually had to very nonchalantly go up and knock at the door and tell them what was going on. But most of the town did put them out as they should.

RB: Did the people who didn't put their lights out, were they'did they get in trouble.

EP: No, oh no, no, uh, they would after he went up and knocked on the door but all the other people would put them out without him telling them. But he always had to go and knock and say, "you know your supposed to have your lights out," and then they would.

RB: How often did they have blackouts?

EP: Not too often, and then of course they, on the hill, the Town Hall had a tower and there was a little room up there and people had to volunteer to go up and sit there. I remembered, I wasn't...I didn't have to, but my mother was one that used to go up and sit so many hours a night to see if they saw any airplanes coming over, or, and that was done daily, nightly for several weeks I would say. And that was volunteer, people did it voluntarily.

RB: Was there a fear that perhaps someone, Germans or Japanese or Italians would come over and attack?

EP: I think that's the reason that they had the watch up there was to be sure that, uh, if anything suspicious was seen, they were told to notify a certain, certain group or a certain person.

RB: Was it talked about a lot, the fear that something might happen?

EP: No, not...not too much, but a little bit more than during normal times.

RB: What did you do in your free time? What kinds of things did you like to do?

EP: You mean not connected with the war?

RB: Well, during the war.

EP: Oh, well I--at that time I had three babies so my time was pretty well taken up and then I had Girl Scout Troops and I belonged to the PTA and I was very active in the town. And that's mostly what I did. At that time I was not working. I stopped teaching when my first baby was born. But I did, uh, I was librarian at the time, in town. So I used to go down there once a week to the library.

RB: So you worked just once a week?

EP: Yes, just once a week it was part time.

RB: And where did the children go?

EP: They stayed right home. My husband usually was there or, uh, yeah usually because we didn't want to pay a babysitter if I was volunteering, but it was only for an hour, an hour and a half. So it wasn't very long.

RB: So how, how much did your husband work?

EP: Oh he worked all the time. He worked from probably eight o'clock until, uh, when there was a big car of grain, a freight car of grain in he might not get home 'til one o'clock at night. So he worked all the time.

RB: What kinds of things did he do? You said he worked...?

EP: He had the grocery store and then the grain and he would have, he'd sell grain to people who had cows and chickens and, uh, he was very busy at, during that time.

RB: Was...you said that it was a grocery store?

EP: Yes a small grocery store. And, of course, he was also postmaster.

RB: Busy guy! [laughter]

EP: Yeah busy guy is right. He was postmaster for forty-one years.  And when he retired he gave that up, of course, and the store.

RB: Did you listen to any music at the time?

EP: Oh yes, I loved music and I play the piano and so, and movies, we also liked to go to the movies. And I, we had, in my younger days in my high school and college days, of course, we went to dances and there were very famous one was Crystal Lake. They had all the name bands over there at that time. So we enjoyed that.

RB: What kinds of people did you see? What kinds of bands?

EP: Just, uh, oh let's see, um...I'm trying to think of some popular ones. Henderson, and I'm not sure whether Gilespe, I think that was one, but anyway they were famous. I don't think it was the (unclear) or Fred Baron, Fred Baron it might have been, but they were name bands.

RB: What kind of movies did you go to? What were the movies like during the war?

EP: Just typical ones, but, of course, before the movies in those days they had news and your news always had plenty to do about the war. That's before the main picture came on. I don't think they do that nowadays.

RB: What kind of things did the news talk about?

EP: Uh, what was going on in the war and what had happened and usually some big thing about Hitler and how mean he was and what he was doing and usually things about that. And also if there were any victories, that, of course, was told. And people, if there was a victory, no matter what nation it was everybody was glad of that.

RB: Did people cheer in the theater when it was announced?

EP: Oh yeah. Yes.

RB: How did you find out that the war had ended?

EP: That what?

RB: That the war had ended?

EP: Um, I think that was over TV. In Willington, we had a very impromptu parade. Everybody got in cars and drove all over the town, yelling and blowing their horns and, it...everybody was so pleased that the war had stopped.

RB: So there was a lot of celebration?

EP: Oh, yes, yes. Mmm hmm.

RB: What about when the men came home, was there...?

EP: When the men came home, of course, they were welcomed.  And I don't know if there was so much a welcoming in the town for all, as when later on like Memorial Day and Veterans Day. Then there were celebrations.

RB: How do you think your life changed as a result of the war?

EP: I don't really think mine changed too much. We were not, although my husband's brother was in the war and, but he came home, but he was in a hospital for several months with something he had picked up during the war. But he got over that and came home. And then another brother-in-law, uh his brother was killed in the war and, of course, we were concerned about that. But I think those were the ones that um, influenced us most, were people that we knew.

RB: Do you know where any of them served?

EP: No, I don't, well I would know where he...Floyd (calling to her husband)

Shut off the tape.

EP: Yeah, uh, my husband's brother was in the Admiralty Islands right on the equator. And his brother-in-law's brother was on a ship that was blown up right in the Pacific. I remember one of the islands right near the Admiralty, but I don't know the name of it. Those are the two that we were mostly concerned with.

RB: And you said your brother-in-law, he had some sort of sickness?

EP: Yeah, Merle, the brother, for a long time he...Floyd, where was Merle when he had that disease? (calling to husband) He probably should be out here. And they uh, took over this, the big hotel in Canada and there the ones that had this Jungle Rot were sent there to recuperate to recover. And he was there for quite a while.

Floyd Phelps (husband): It was quite a while.

EP: Several months

FP: Then he came back through Boston, the same place that, uh Clyde's daughter, what's her name?

EP: Oh, Kathleen. Mmm Hmm.

FP: In that hospital there.

EP: Boston. Vagler Hospital. But anyway those were the, mostly the two that we were concerned about. Would be Frank and Merle. Those were the ones we were concerned about, Frank and Merle.

RB: So what was this "Jungle Rot" like?

EP: Do you know what it was like? The Jungle Rot?

FP: Well, yeah, he was packed in cotton he, his, all the skin came off...

EP: Skin disease, it is, it's a skin disease.

FP: He was packed in cotton all over...

EP: His whole body, was, they said it was quite a sight, he looked like a snowman. [laughter]

FP: He got over that, so

EP: Yeah, he made a full recovery.

FP: By the time he got home, you wouldn't even know.

RB: How do you think the war changed political views in the United States?

EP: How did it change political views in the United States, the war?

FP: [laughter] I don't know.

RB: Do you think it did?

EP: Well not that I know of, but, of course, it must have. But I don't really, didn't change around here at all.

RB: Okay, what about women's issues. How do you think it changed women's issues?

EP: Well I think it, uh, it, uh, having, uh, women go in and work in the, uh the riveter, it made them, I think they came up, that they were something rather than just a minority. But I think so, because they were necessary for the job. And I think more were working out of the home because of that, too. Rather than just staying around and being a homemaker.

RB: Do you think that continued after the war, a lot?

EP: I think so. I think so.

RB: Um, did you know any women that were working during the war and continued working after the war?

EP: Who? (looking at husband)

FP: Oh yeah, that were in the service you mean?

EP: No, that worked, Rosie the Riveter, worked in Standard, there was Pratt and Whitney and Hamilton and... (pause) we don't know the names, but there were several from this town that did continue.

FP: Everybody seemed to be working at Pratt and Whitney.

EP: Yeah, Pratt and Whitney was a, the one that was the and Hamilton, Pratt and Whitney was more than Hamilton, wasn't it?

FP: Yeah.

EP: Pratt and Whitney was the big one. Oh yes, several, several from this town went to work for Pratt and Whitney. And worked right after the war and continued until they either changed or died.

RB: Do you think it was more...people agreed with women going to work more after the war than they did before?

EP: Oh, I think so definitely. Yeah.

RB: Do you think there is anything, is there anything else you'd like to talk about that I forgot to ask?

EP: I can't think of anything, cause I really, Willington really wasn't terribly into, well we were in the things that I told you, but nothing that was outstanding.

RB: What lessons do you think should be learned from the war? I'm an aspiring Social Studies teacher, so I'll be teaching about the war. What should I tell my students?

EP: Well, I think the severity of a war is one thing that you have to be concerned about. And, uh, whether or not it was really necessary, um. So many little scrimmages have come up later that several people think there was no need of. Is that what you mean?

RB: Mmm hmm.

EP: Other than that I can't tell you

RB: Okay, and uh, do you think someday there will be a World War III?

EP: I hope not. I hope not. And I don't think so. Do you?

FP: Crazy if they do.

EP: Yes, crazy if they do. [laughter]

RB: Okay.

EP: No I really don't think so.

RB: I hope your right

EP: I hope so, too.

RB: Alright well, thank you very much for doing this interview with me.

EP: Good I'm glad to do it, I didn't think I'd be able to talk that long.

RB: And you did a nice job.